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Crisis in Yugoslavia
TIME Correspondent Ed Barnes from Yugoslavia

America Online Transcript from April 7, 1999


Timehost: Good afternoon everyone... our guest today is TIME magazine correspondent Ed Barnes, who is reporting to us live from Montenegro. Mr. Barnes, thanks for joining us.

Timehost: Though part of the same Yugoslav federation, Serbia and Montenegro are at political odds. How worried are the people or Montenegro that Serbia will try to overthrow their leaders?

Ed Barnes: Terribly tense. I mean it's the only topic of conversation in the cafes. The military, the local police, have reinforced all the strategic points, and there is a sense that one spark - one confrontation between the police and the Yugoslav army will set this place alight and start a civil war here.

Question: Why do you think the Serbs are keeping the Albanians from leaving now?

Ed Barnes: First of all, I think that probably they're going to go into a negotiating strategy from what we heard, the army's having a fairly tough time in Kosovo -- they've been hit very hard. And there is no endgame in sight. For Mr. Milosevic, he cannot leave the province empty and hope for a negotiation. In effect, they are still pawns.

Timehost: Are the refugees you're seeing hopeful they'll ever be able to return to their homes?

Ed Barnes: Not as long as Milosevic is in power. Everyone yearns to go back. They have nothing to go to where they are but they know that going back with Milosevic in power means certain death. They've seen their friends killed, their houses burned...and they could never go through that again. As one said to me in a place where people burn your houses, there is no hope of survival.

Question: Do the ethnic Albanians want a cease-fire?

Ed Barnes: The dream of the Albanians is safety. A cease-fire without some guarantee of protection is meaningless to them.

Question: Do the ethnic Albanians support the KLA activities now and before the war?

Timehost: And I'll add: who speaks for the Albanians?

Ed Barnes: As things worsen in Kosovo, over the last year, the KLA's support grew. But they have been ineffective in protecting the population against the Serb onslaught. The KLA still exists, it still has support, but in conversations with refugees coming across the border, very few wanted to talk about the KLA. Very few said they would take up arms and go back as members. So the KLA at this point, based on conversations with refugees, is almost a meaningless organization. That could change if they were given better arms and training. But at this point, the KLA does not seem to be part of the equation.

Question: What's the total casualty count for both sides?

Ed Barnes: The casualty count varies by region among the refugees. For example, in the northern city of Pec, the 2nd largest city in Kosovo, there were about 200 killings. Most of them happened prior to the forced depopulation of the city. Mainly the killings were a weapon of terror. In other places, for example, Lodgje, where the KLA was active, Serb authorities, according to refugees, had lists not only of KLA but family members. And many of them were killed. In those places, the killing was far worse. Among the VJ, the Yugoslav army, it's difficult to tell. The first obituaries are starting to be published in local newspapers. People from Kosovo we have talked to say the army is in some disarray, and the casualties are heavy, but we cannot quantify them at this time.

Question: With coverage on the Internet and on CNN, why do you think that there is still so much misinformation among the Russian and Yugoslav people?

Ed Barnes: They read their own internet sites, which provide the misinformation, and virtually all the media inside Serbia is controlled by the government. They have a propaganda machine that talks only of heroic defense and injured babies, dead babies. Most people in Serbia are unaware of what was in the Renvouillet document. They were unaware the bombing was coming and they were unaware of any of the statements from the West. They hear only what Milosevic wants them to hear and very little of that is true.

Question: There are conflicting stories concerning why refugees are fleeing Kosovo. From what you hear and experience are they talking about fleeing from Serbian aggressors or NATO bombs. With who do the people we are supposed to be "protecting" lie?

Ed Barnes: I spent a great deal of time among the hundred thousand people who were driven from the northern city of Pec. Not one said a NATO bomb had fallen while they were there. In each case, Serb paramilitary troops police or soldiers came to their houses and gave them minutes to leave. Based on conversations with those there is no question of why they are fleeing.

Timehost: Has the influx of relief agencies and supplies been able to make a dent in the humanitarian catastrophe unfolding along the border?

Ed Barnes: From where I sit in Montenegro, there has neither been an influx of aid agency or supplies. Very little aid is making its way to the border towns where people live, sometimes 50 to a house.

Question: Has Russia changed its stance on NATO's attacks on Serbia?

Ed Barnes: Unfortunately, from where I sit in Montenegro, following Russian politics is a little difficult. I'll have to defer on that one, okay?

Question: How are the people chosen to be airlifted to other countries?

Ed Barnes: Again, in Montenegro there are no airlifts there is no aid. My understanding is that that is being done mainly in Macedonia and the selection process is done by local police without regard to family. It is also my understanding that that is supposed to be reorganized. Though I can't say that definitively. You have to remember these small countries that are accepting refugees are fearful of themselves becoming centers of ethnic conflict. For example, in Montenegro, in just a week or so, the refugees account now for 15 percent of its population, total.

Question: On CNN, the exiled Princess Elizabeth said that this action is reprehensible because no one came to the aid of the Serbs when 400,000 of them were being driven from Bosnia. Is this a fair comparison do you think?

Ed Barnes: I don't think the situations are exactly the same. The Kriana Serbs drove, cleansed their area of Croat and Muslim Bosnians; they had a large and powerful army. And while their flight was as harrowing as the Albanians' were, they were also participants, significant participants, in the Bosnian war.

Question: Is it true, there are thousands of missing refugees?

Ed Barnes: Yes. One of the big questions is not who made it out but what's happened to those still inside. We hear reports that many are trapped somewhere in concentration camps and others are just lost or in hiding in the mountains. Their fate is potentially far worse than those who crossed the border.

Timehost: What's been Montenegro's role over the last 10 years as Milosevic worked on his "Greater Serbia" campaign? Has it tried to break away?

Ed Barnes: The answer is yes and no. Prior to the election of a pro-Western democratic government two years ago, Montenegro was involved with Serbia in much of the worst phases of the Bosnian war. Paramilitary bases of such men as Arkan were here, but that changed two years ago. Today the government here has refused to declare a state of war, and has not been recognized by the Serbian authorities. There is virtually no contact between the two governments. And according to a source close to the president, he received a message from Milosevic the other night that said when the chaos is done in Kosovo, don't wait for me in Montenegro. Meaning that he will turn his guns here. Montenegro is the only democratic government in existence in the Balkans. But few here believe that they can last much longer.

Question: In the end, do you think Kosovo will be an independent nation?

Ed Barnes: It's hard to predict the future, but it is also hard to see much other, any other option. It would be very difficult to ask those who left to return and live under Serb authorities, particularly if there is no fundamental change in the Serbian government.

Timehost: We have run out of time for questions.

Ed Barnes: Thank you all very much.

Timehost: Thank you Ed Barnes for joining us.


TIME.com Special Report: The Kosovo File